Looking for a decent Piano Accordion with Zydeco sound..

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jamrat	Dealing with feedback on zydeco accordion gigs	#21	[-]
Posts: 2 (08/15/08 09:42:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I play a german piano accordion in my zydeco band, we play at a high volume in various blues bars around the metro area, and Im still disappointed in my accordion tone, issues with feedback, and related monitor issues that I suspect are due to a loud stage volume, and having to play near the drummer and other instruments. Usually when we play we use my 8 channel mixer, a Peavey mixer with the "ferret" system that will light up which eq slider contains the feedback, and while I can notch that, it will effect every instrument (and the vox) that is running thru the mixer. Its always the accordion feeding back, usually thru the monitors, occasionally thru the mains if they're loud enough and too close to the accordion. So Ive employed the use of a "feedback destroyer," made by behringer, that says will monitor my accordion and eliminate small widths of the frequency spectrum that have feedback. I find this has helped alot with the feedback, but it also kills my tone, I suspect its pulling out too much of the accordion frequencies, "thinking" that sustained notes are feedback when they are just part of a song. I play a piano accordion with seinheiser pick ups, stereo, into the feedback destroyer, then into the mixer, then on to the mains as well as the monitors. I called the behringer help line, and they suggested putting the feedback destroyer after the mixer, before the monitors, which I haven't had the chance to do yet at a gig. Will try it. Anyone have any suggestions about what might help? Different pick ups / mics for the accordion? Different configuration? Much appriciated.
soundhound		#22	[-]
Posts: 78 (08/29/08 15:19:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Jamrat- You want a ballsy sound without feedback, so there is really only one solution. You need to put an eq on your feed to the monitor channel, and kill the frequencies that are feeding back. Sometimes you can get by by just removing say 1K entirely... you can get used to your weak frequencies.
ernest James		#23	[-]
Posts: 3 (09/02/08 12:18:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Sound hound. I m going to try putting my feed back destroyer between the mixer and the monitors, it will affect my monitor tone but not my tone thru the mains, and hope I don't get feedback thru the mains. Its hard to use an eq onstage that I need to adjust on the fly, as the band leader, the singer and accordionist. Im feeding back on lots of frequencies, so Im wondering if the problem is really just my seinhauser condenser mics. I noted your recomendation of the Fender M1 and M2 mics. I think Fender doesn't make them anymore. Do I need to spend $200 to mic my accordion? I ve listened to how little feedback Cliffton Chenier had... listening to his live albums. And I heard from sonny Landreth that Cliffton got his cool overdriven tone by plugging into an old pa (tube?) amp/ cabnet. I think he used what it called a crystal mic. Does that sound right? I heard theyre cheap (less than $200) and get the job done without feeding back too bad, and I just wonder should I search for a new micing system in my accordion? Id love to be able to dial in some distortion/ overdrive on my accordion, but when I've tried that, it just distorts even worse. Im tempted to ask you if you have that $400 accordion with the mic system in it, because it sounded like a good deal. Ill try putting the feedback destroyer in a new spot in my sound path and see how that goes.
soundhound		#24	[-]
Posts: 79 (09/03/08 08:20:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Ernest--- here's the 64,000 dolla question... how big is the PA? If it is like a 48 bass (little) you can put a Fender M1 or even a shure 56 inside and get great sounds. if you are looking at 16-19" keyboard it is a whole different ballgame, and you need your sennheiser spread. With todays sound reinforcement realities you will never be satisfied with lousy crystal mics. There is one other solution that is pretty simple... try a Titano Combo-cordian. here is a link to one that just sold on ebay for about $500. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eB...eName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003 I have one that is in immaculate shape (some dings & dents, but in perfect tune & a 99 operationally) that I would sell for $500. Read all about it on the ebay description. What he doesn't mention is that the thing is designed to destroy feedback. Every air-out is at right angles. OK-the box is just 72 bass (all the keys at least) and quiet as hell when not plugged in (air escapes are way limited)... but it does not feedback, and is truly a quality Titano box. I also have a complete Fender M1 for sale for $150. I would say it will work up to 60 bass, but I wouldn't go for more. The parametric eq on it is awesome, but the distance from low to high is just too great in a bigger PA.
ernest James	talking bout micing accordions	#25	[-]
Posts: 4 (09/03/08 12:44:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the reply sound hound. I may be interested in your Titano. The info on the link appeared to no longer exist, as it has sold. Whats shifts does it have on the RH and LH? Whats the mic system? How old is it? My accordion is a 60 bass, the left hand has this in each row: 3rd, root, major, minor, and maj 7th. It goes from D flat at the bottom to F sharp on the top. the Right hand is about 2 and a half octaves, if I remember correctly. Ill have to measure it. Im thinking that my left hand as a 60 bass (without the min 7th) is the same general size as a 72 bass, and I wonder if my accordion is small enough to take the Fender. Sounds like it, do you think?
soundhound	IT WILL WORK GREAT!	#26	[-]
Posts: 80 (09/03/08 13:45:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have an M1 in my 60 bass Castiglione and it is awesome! No feedback. Great ballsy sound, and the little micro-circuitry cable allows me to just barely notch the accordian case and then seal it up with clear silicon. When I took the mic out of the hohner, I sold the hohner without anyone even addressing the minor noch (which I had filled with silicon and also taped over with striping tape. No chance it will ever leak or show... I just notched it an 1/8" past where the wood pressed up on the shell from inside. Easy install. here's the catch, though. You will have to move the mic along the top of the center treble reed block to get exactly the sound you want. I was happy with my 2nd try, and can show you where that was. Once you set the mic then you have to experiment with the parametic eq and the bass rolloff on the belt pack. If you have 2 hours you are gold. I am sending yo my email in a private message. Send me your email & I will end you the Titano info & pix.
iamhe	The Cotati Accordion you asked about	#27	[-]
Posts: 16 (10/09/08 08:42:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have a full size Cottati accordion from Accordion lab, bought it a few years ago in the MMML configuration... It is excellent, and never had a single problem with it. At the time I paid 1050.00 dollars.... I soon found out it was made in China by GoldenCup.. I then bought an exact duplicate from GoldenCup... except I asked for the HMML configuration... I paid 700.00 dollars Both are great accordions..... the prices have gone up sisnce then... -fuel, fall of dollar- skipping a lot of history... I ordered the 34 key 72 bass 4/3 MML accordion in red from Goldencup as you pointed out in your Cottati link.. paid 350 for it.. Then I ordered another one in black same as above only it had two switches on the left hand and seven on the right hand still it is a 34 key 72 bass 4 reed sets on the left hand and 3 on the right hand.. 400.00 this IS the stage performers correct configuration for cajun zydeco R&B Country rock and roll.... When I play the right hand I want all 3 reed sets MML playing.. and for a nice sweet variation I drop out the L and switch to the MM reeds.... THEY are slightly musette tuned... and sound beautiful... those are the only two voices I want to hear from from the keyboard in this kind of music... the left hand I generally like all four reed sets playing especially if I am the only one playing, but I have discovered it is nice to drop out the lowest reed set sometimes to lighten up the left hand sound.... LOVE IT, play it all the time I just ordered another 34 key 120 bass 4/3 Golden Cup with some performance inprovements.... these accordions are made with swiss steel reeds.... the performance inprovements were not something I felt were necessary but a pro friend of mine, my dealer, thinks he has improved the speed oft the keys and buttons... so I will give it a try... I have installed microphones in these accordions... I have done a lot of experimenting doing this.... I use a low impeadance dynamic microphone or microphones.. There are some warnings I sould tell you about.... and what we are doing to address these issues.... I highly reccomend these accordions.... I LOVE playing them, they are the latest generation of Chinese Accordions and they are made very well, with many virtues... Make no mistake about it China -at least GoldenCup- is taking their accordion building very seriously... there is a lot of hate propaganda aginst them.. because GoldenCup is offering price performance, the other manufactures don't like. I also just bought a Roland FR-2. Last Edited By: iamhe 10/09/08 08:46:35. Edited 1 times.
erikray	video of my Hohner Concerto with a Fender M1 mic in it....	#28	[-]
Posts: 7 (11/20/08 11:08:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here is a link to a video of me playing my Hohner Concerto with an internal Bellows mic (Fender M1).... plugged directly into my PA system with the Highs and Mids turned way down and the Bass boosted a bit on the individual channel controls. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4q7fMk0PLs I have found that this setup is the best one I have encountered for getting the accordion sound out. I had to drill a hole to fit the XLR mic connector into the bottom side of the treble part of the accordion. I used hot glue to seal it and wired the Fender M1 mic directly to the XLR connector. The mic itself is placed right next to the treble reeds..... since there are only two sets of treble reeds in these little Hohners, there is enough room in there to place the mic without it being too close to the bass reeds. I use the volume on my PA head (Mackie) to control the volume and EQ the accordion. It is an active mic, so you have to have 48v phantom power built into your PA head (most newer PA's have this option on them) Erik
soundhound		#29	[-]
Posts: 81 (11/21/08 13:26:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	hey Erik... glad you got that M1 working in there, and glad to have led you in that direction. Now I am hoping you can show me a picture of how you hotwired the xlr... even a drawing would be helpful. You are getting the full benefit of the M1 sound without the eq or rolloff... that is HOT! Now, as far as your sounds goes, the little hohner will never sound "zydeco" because all it has is 2 sets of wet tuned reeds (some are LM, some are LH... yours sound like LH). That is why the castiglione is the answer... it has 3 sets LMM... in a case the size of a large 3-row. It has the real zydeco sound. I have decided to sell it again (the M1 is still in it) because I have decided I need 120 bass with full size keys, and got a really nice Titano Standard that is not too too heavy. I am putting my energies in that direction... so the castig is on the block--- down to $900. Great to see your video... post more!
erikray	Wiring an M1 inside the accordion	#30	[-]
Posts: 8 (12/16/08 07:43:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Soundhound, I saw a setup advertised on ebay about a year ago, that had the female XLR connector and a wiring diagram. I can't find it now...but I when I wired the xlr wires onto the female XLR connector, I just matched the colors on the original Fender M1 XLR male connector ( I unscrewed the connector and looked at how it was wired) to the posts on the new female connector by how they were oriented. I am a horrible solderer and it took a few tries to get it right. I also wired a Shure SM11 non-active lavalier mic into my Hohner Student 40 the same way. I do have a few LMM treble reed accordions (Hohner Arietta, Castiglione 48 bass, Baldoni Combo III) but I have found that I really like the sound of the little 40 and 48 bass Hohners) I tried micing the internal bellows of the Arietta the same way I did my little Hohners, but the larger size didn't work as well with the single internal microphone. Again, thanks for your advice and help on my accordions. You do a great job with this group. Erik

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Looking for a decent Piano Accordion with Zydeco sound..

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